EP 1: Kick-start Your Next Career: Insights from Transitioned Veterans

EP 1 Kick Start Your Next Career features: Angie Smith, Steve Janke, Corey Spuhler and Steve Brown of Camp Brown Bear USA

The Military to Civilian Career Transition Power Hour is your place to discover the remarkable stories of military-to-civilian transitions.  Each power-packed episode features real people, just like you.  Those who are going through military to civilian career transition and those who are on the path to careers outside of the military.

In this episode we'll meet:

Active-duty Air Force member, Angie Smith, shares her inspiring journey from medical separation to civilian life in just two and a half months. Her story teaches us about embracing flexibility and honesty during this transition.

USMC veteran Steve Janke, CEO of Semper Forward, explores the role of technology in modern job hunting, discussing the potential of AI and platforms like LinkedIn.

Former USMC/Navy Warfare training officer, Corey Spuhler, provides insights into civilian life after the military, emphasizing the importance of adaptability and building relationships with hiring teams.

Finally, hear from Navy Seal veteran Stephen Brown, President of Camp Brown Bear, USA, about his unconventional career path and his mission to provide support to veterans suffering from PTSD, TBI, and MSA.

Tune in to gain valuable insights into military-to-civilian transitions and find inspiration for your own journey.

If you or someone you know would like to be a guest on the Military to Civilian Career Transition Power Hour, let us know. Go to www.xchangepodcast.com and click connect. A producer will read your request and get back to you. Thanks for your support!

Learn more about host, Cheryl Cross and her book, "CIVILIAN MISSION: The 3-Year Guide for Military Professionals Planning Civilian Careers" available for order online.

Transcript

Intro by Justin Cruz: 0:00

Thanks for listening to the Military to Civilian Career Transition Power Hour One hour of tips from experts and real stories from people just like you. For those thinking about what lies ahead, for those going through the job search and those who have paved the way to their next career after the military. These professionals are dedicated to helping you move forward successfully to the next phase of your career after the military. Welcome to X CHANGE.

Cheryl Cross: 0:40

Welcome back to the show. I'm so excited to have active duty Air Force Angie Smith. She is currently OCONUS, currently serving and looking forward to a transition, but has a few interesting particulars as she goes through both her career transition to civilian work and then out. I thought your story was really unusual. You have a lot of unusual circumstances. Not only are you serving outside of the United States, OCONUS, but you have a few other impacts. Would you like to talk about them?

Angie Smith: 1:13

Yeah, absolutely. I guess just been experiencing that kind of started this transition process. I ended up being recommended for a medical board and I'm currently medically separating, which can be difficult in itself, of course, but having to do it from overseas presents a whole different list of difficulties and what's already, for most people transitioning, already a pretty difficult time.

Cheryl Cross: 1:46

Has it shortened your timeline at all from the regular 12 months?

Angie Smith: 1:50

Considerably. Normally I would be, like you said, more on the 12 month time frame, but the timeline set I've been given and the goal was actually for me to be out within two and a half months, which of course is fast for anyone to kind of unexpectedly be shifting jobs. But then you have to imagine coming back to the States and moving and figuring out where you're going to go on top of that. So it was very, very overwhelming when I first found out for sure.

Cheryl Cross: 2:24

When you and I spoke, we were talking specifically about the impacts this would have to you as a job seeker. Tell us what your experience has been as you get conflicting information from your military branch. Oh, you thought it would be several months ago. It's been a couple months and not to put them down. I know that there's a lot involved, but how has this impacted your job search?

Angie Smith: 2:47

Always with the military, they always have a certain time frame or goal in mind and that's not always, that's not always something that they're able to keep to so well.

Angie Smith: 3:01

Of course the quick turnaround wasn't great for me, the Air Force and the I guess just all the processes and everything ended up taking quite a bit longer and they weren't able to meet their goal as well.

Angie Smith: 3:18

So I'm here trying to update my resume and interview for jobs, and for the first, the first little bit, I couldn't really give them a definite date of when I would be available, not even necessarily a month, not confidently enough that I feel like it would instill a whole lot of confidence on someone that wanted me to be in the position at a certain time frame. So that was something that was a little difficult. Luckily I had a lot of kind of resources to prepare me for writing a good resume, knowing kind of how to interview, and I made a good enough impression that while maybe we didn't know for sure, but maybe I wouldn't be able to necessarily meet the timeline that they wanted for the position, they still wanted to hire me with their company, and so that did open quite a few doors, leave things a little open-ended so that when I did get more definitive dates or the time got closer, I'd be able to reach out with them. So that was.

Cheryl Cross: 4:40

Congratulations. That's not everybody's story so tell us a little bit more about how you navigated that. Were you honest right up front? How did you get yourself in a situation where you could be flexible and they would stay flexible? Tell us a little bit more about that.

Angie Smith: 4:56

Right. So as far as me being flexible, if you had asked me maybe when this med board process first started, I would have been very this needs to happen by this day. I want to be going to this kind of area, but just with my Just the situation kind of changing so frequently, I really had to honestly take a step back and let it can say these are the things that you're kind of able to control in this situation and this is your goal down the line, so kind of allowed me to take a step back, realize that there is a lot of support Luckily I have a good support system back home as well if I was out of a job and I am getting medically retired, so there will be some compensation, of course, as soon as I get out. So I kind of just try to take a step back and really calm down, figure out the best way to work towards achieving my goal instead of the military. It's always like quickly get this done, now do this, do that. So I really had to kind of step out of that mindset and shift a little bit. And then, as far as the jobs I try to be At first I was like oh, maybe I can, if I hook them enough and give them, make myself seem a little more confident or something with my timelines.

Angie Smith: 6:44

That was the goal in my head. But as I was interviewing, a lot of these people were very we had great interviews, like pretty good chemistry, and they really A lot of them were really just trying to figure out the best way to place me and I realized maybe, obviously it would be a better idea to be really upfront, because people do, ultimately especially recruiters appreciate that if you're upfront with them, they'll be upfront with you. So, yeah, I very quickly abandoned that plan before I put it into practice, luckily, and just being as transparent as possible, and at least I think I'm very lucky with my I guess the career field that I'm pursuing is that a lot of these people have prior military experience, so they're very understanding, kind of, of my situation as well.

Cheryl Cross: 7:49

So the three themes I hear you saying is that you selected companies and organizations that understand military. They may serve military. It sounds like you're kind of going into a job that was similar to your MOS. You're staying flexible. You're realizing that this is a process that you have little control over, that you just have to kind of roll with the punches or ride the wave right and then you're looked for a company where you really felt on a gut level that there was some chemistry and they would work with you.

Cheryl Cross: 8:18

I think that's these three things are so hard when we're looking at folks who are trying to get their first jobs. You had to learn it by force in a way, because you had no other options. But what I really love you saying is that you had a support system. You have family Some folks don't, and the folks that have retired ahead of you or have separated ahead of you the military family support center. I can't talk enough about them.

Cheryl Cross: 8:47

If you're at a base and you are, have access to these folks or maybe your military branch can put you in touch with someone close by. I would recommend you get on the phone with them because they are a line of help. They will throw out the buoy and even if it's interview, mock interviewing or looking at your resume or being that career coach, these people are underutilized in my opinion, and I certainly hope that you would reach out to them as well. Let's talk a little bit more Angie about your resources. When you said you had a good interview, you had a good resume, who were you working with? Did you hire someone or did you take advantage of who the military offered you?

Angie Smith: 9:51

I didn't hire anybody.

Angie Smith: 9:53

I was definitely very open to that and thinking probably that I would, just because I, of course, was kind of on a time crunch and didn't know if I had the time to put in the practice and really hone in on my interview skills and even resume writing skills.

Angie Smith: 10:11

But yeah, I ended up being very successful with the resources even that the military provides. So the transition assistance class that you know, you a lot of people kind of dread going to because it's you have to sit through, to through these briefs, but I really went in with an open mind and was there to learn and while, of course, they do have to go through certain briefs that maybe not the most exciting or don't necessarily apply, the thing that helped me the most is they have a list of resources and I got lucky enough that one of the people that was teaching a part of my course was a prior hiring manager as well, so she gave a lot of insight. Yeah, exactly, gave a lot of insight on resumes, what people look for, looking at job descriptions and requirements and things like that, and that made that really made all the difference for me.

Cheryl Cross: 11:19

I love hearing that it's not always easy for us to ask for help, and I think that when you have this sort of oh my goodness, you have to get out not only of a country but of a job. You have to transfer everything sort of ambiguous. What I liked the most about you is that you have a very honest take on it. You're willing to talk to the experience and not get emotional about it, and I don't know if that's just who you are, angie, but I think if we could give recommendations is to take the emotion out of this.

Cheryl Cross: 11:55

Your frustration will come through in every aspect of the interview process in your resume writing, in your networking, all the things that you need to do, even if it is fast forward only in two months instead of 12, it's going to come through as I don't want to say desperate, but feel prepared in a hurry, not really taking your time, which you don't have the luxury of time. So, Angie, you've had to stay flexible. I'm curious how, aside from being a really weird time zones because OCONUS are are you doing all of your transitioning virtually? Is that kind of what's happening?

Angie Smith: 12:37

Yeah, essentially pretty much all of it. Even some of my, you know, Air Force appointments, some of my medical appointments, those even are being done virtually as well. And I don't necessarily have the practice in a somewhat professional setting or even like a learning setting with doing those things virtually Like. Even during COVID I was an essential worker so I was always going into work, so that was definitely a bit of a learning curve, was getting used to doing, you know, interviews over video, preparing that kind of stuff, networking virtually as well. So, yeah, it was like I said, yeah, a bit of a learning curve but luckily a lot of people I think you're doing pretty good. Oh, thank you, thank you, I appreciate that.

Cheryl Cross: 13:36

I think you're doing okay. Well, good luck on your separation and thank you so much for your support to the Armed Services. I believe you're going to continue the mission, just having some conversations with some of the companies you were looking at. I hope, I hope, hope, hope, and I know that you will excel in everything you do because you have the right mindset, and that's really what I think is the number one most important thing. Before I leave, if you have a favorite resource that you use that may sit outside the military, I'll throw one out. The USO teams are at most bases. They offer support if you can't find a military family support center, or do you have another resource that you'd?

Angie Smith: 14:17

I would like to share, o ne of the things, the resource that has been most helpful for me in my particular situation with job hunting and just kind of getting feedback on my future plans. It's VETERATI. Essentially, you're able to schedule what you have an account you're able to schedule, you know, one hour long sessions with a. You can choose from a long list of mentors that have all kinds of different skills and different experiences. Some have access to jobs and you're able to pick somebody's schedule and appointment with them and just kind of sometimes pick their brain about certain things. See if you're able to kind of tap into the network that they have, if they have any ideas or thoughts on your transition plans, any advice, sometimes even just someone to kind of vent to you about your experiences as well. A lot of them are really just there to provide as much support as possible.

Cheryl Cross: 15:20

Is this a paid service or was this free for you?

Angie Smith: 15:22

No, it's free.

Cheryl Cross: 15:23

Oh, excellent. I've heard a lot about VETERATI and I'm going to do a deep dive. You're the third person that's talked to me about it on the show, so let's see, maybe we can get those folks to talk to us as well.

Angie Smith: 15:35

Yeah, that would great.

Cheryl Cross: 15:36

You've been a great joy to have on the show and I look forward to interviewing you in as you transition out and have your first year of experience in the in the job world. I wish you nothing but success. Thank you so much. I appreciate it and for those of you going through your active duty time frame for transition into the civilian workforce, whatever that looks like for you and wherever you are in the world, we wish you luck. Stay tuned. I'm pleased and honored to bring you an expert who has not only been a great mentor and friend as I developed the concept for this show, but he is a career transition expert. His name is Steve Yankee. He is a retired Marine Corps. He is 100% on board with helping us out today and we're going to go through some really tough questions. Welcome to the show, Steve.

Steve Janke - Expert: 16:31

Well, Cheryl, thanks for having me. Great to be back. Really love what you're doing in the community and how you're you're helping to build those bridges between, like the resources and the people that live it, know it and then have experienced it to that community.

Cheryl Cross: 16:54

You and I have talked about this. I think it's very important for the folks that are listening. Ai has taken over everything Chat, gpt-4, bard so many other AI enabled apps are helping us with productivity but I don't know that candidates understand that AI exists internally to some organizations and what that means, folks, is you are applying for a job. An AI or a robot or maybe the system we'll just call it. The system is parsing through your resume, looking for things that match the job description. It's why it's so important that you match your resume to the job descriptions, which is arduous if you're applying for 20, 30 jobs. So, Steve, what I'd like for you to focus on is your knowledge of the AI space for the clients that you work for and the candidates that you're helping go through that process.

Steve Janke - Expert: 17:49

Cheryl, we know that the hardest part of the job search and the transition is writing the resume. Oftentimes because of how the military community is brought up and our ethos is it's a we thing versus a me thing. So we often think about did I really do that? Didn't I do that? Is it mine to own or did we do it as a team? So working past the we to the me is that piece. But then the barrier to entry into the civilian world is translating your military to civilian. Now, fortunately, technology has created this wonderful thing called chat GPT, right and large language model aggregators in which you can copy and paste your military centric resume into chat GPT and ask it to translate it to civilian and it will spit that out for you. And then you just copy it again, paste it into the word doc and you have a resume that's been translated.

Steve Janke - Expert: 18:51

Now that's just one of the like minutia, practical applications of AI in the transition space in which you can make transition easy enough that a Marine can do it. I mean like truly just dumb it down to the point where it's just keep it simple, stupid type of stuff. We happen to love a resource called Teal. It's tango, echo, alpha, lima hotel, quabaccom, and it is a career center and it is web based, in which you can put your career goal and then in it you can link to your LinkedIn and it'll suck that in and then you can bring in the URL of jobs you're looking at, you can bring in company information and it has a CRM in it so you can manage all the network connections that you're building Like in one single site. But the really cool thing when we talk about AI is when and the reason this is better than an Excel spreadsheet, which I guarantee you, the majority of people are using a track like they're. Like I'm applying for these 12 jobs and I have it on an Excel spreadsheet and all this stuff.

Steve Janke - Expert: 20:06

The reason Teal is head and shoulders above that is because it uses chat GBT in order to maximize the impact of your resume in relationship to the job you're applying for through one single push of the button. So it takes your resume and then it takes the job description and it tells you an analysis of the things that you're missing. And if it says, hey, what you're missing here is a summary that matches with the job description. You can update your summary using chat GBT. Wow, and it's just a one button push and then it's gonna spit it out and it's gonna be like that updated resume for it. So that's just one of the many ways like AI is transforming how you apply and connect with like in Marine Corps, parlance, locate, close with and destroy that next opportunity. It's just making it so much easier for the job seeker to do it.

Steve Janke - Expert: 21:04

So when we talk about writing a cover letter right, I know for a fact, because we do this all the time is you can plug in the job description and then some basic facts about the person writing the cover letter and ask chat GBT to produce you a cover letter. Wow, and it will spit you out one. Now you gotta go through and proofread it and make sure. Like you know, it's all kosher, but other than that, it's gonna give you a really tight three paragraph structure that is succinct, narrative driven, with a language model that is easy to read, and it's gonna do it in. You know, less time it takes for me to eat like a yellow crayon. Yeah, it's just gonna be that fast and it's so easy to do.

Cheryl Cross: 22:39

And let's just take the opportunity to stop here and remind folks that are listening or watching. If you don't have a LinkedIn profile, please create one. Please fill it up, put your experience there. I know some of you who are cleared can't put all of your experience. Your agency or whoever you're working with might need to clear it, but you can put general information. You don't necessarily have to put where you're physically at. We don't want bad actors to go find you, but you want to be starting wherever you are in your process. You wanna start that, because LinkedIn is a wonderful tool.

Cheryl Cross: 23:16

If you don't load anything into the machine, it can't make it up. You know, ai is a wondrous thing, but it has to learn the language and it also has to kind of let's see let's just say, if the company isn't aware of the transition the type of skills that would match your MOS and we say this on every expert interview. There are some companies that I've learned have a MOS translator. Verizon is one. There's other large companies that are doing it. Some of your military family support centers have these tools and I believe there might be an app coming out, so be sure to look at it. Look for MOS translator.

Steve Janke - Expert: 24:00

You know, semper Forward and Mission Wisconsin, we use AI in kind of a different way. We understand that the friction point between the candidate meeting us at an event and shaking our hand and saying, hey, we're interested in opportunities with your partner employers and connecting to that opportunity is us right, like I've identified the problem. I am the problem, it is me right, I think, like Taylor Swift said, that. Anyway, we know that we want to be able to match you, without a resume, through an opportunity that interests you, and it doesn't have to be a perfect fit, because we just need to take that aisle of Costco cereal down to just the chocolate cereal that you want. So we've created an algorithm that does machine learning and artificial intelligence, that scrapes all of our partner companies' websites and then matches our active candidates, like our hiring window candidates two jobs that match their interest, and all we need from you in order to match is your preferred location and your career field. So if you say logistics or if you say IT or if you say project management, it will then match you to all of those jobs and send you an email with a link to apply directly to those jobs if you want.

Steve Janke - Expert: 25:19

The friction always ends up being in. The candidate, like you in transition, has interest in an opportunity. So how does that opportunity get presented to you in the fastest way? When you go to an event, you meet a recruiter. The recruiter tells you yes, I think you'd be a great fit for this. Now it's on the recruiter or you to either find that job or send you that job.

Steve Janke - Expert: 25:45

So what our technology, Semper Forward does is it reduces that friction point and it says, Hey! I've seen Dave come in, I know what Dave wants to do and I know the location he wants to do and I've went through every job with these companies that match that and I'll just send it to Dave. So now Dave can be like, oh, I'm gonna look through the job description and I'm gonna look through the job description. So, whether or not the recruiter, the human, us, like the point of failure in all of these relationships, is having a really bad Monday, or has been sucked into like the 27th meeting that they don't wanna be in, or wants to spend Saturday or Sunday with their family instead of on the road, right, Semper is always working in the background, always connecting, always matching, always showing that opportunity to the people that we wanna serve and allowing them to take the action.

Cheryl Cross: 26:41

You know I like putting anything we can in the hands of the applicants. By the way, folks, you listening, you're an applicant, you know it's really behind the curtain. Like I said earlier, I think the question mark for all of you that are listening is how can you figure out how those corporations are working on the internal side? Now, I can't unlock all the mysteries. I have signed NDAs, Steve has too, and it really won't behoove you to know those internal processes. But I think what you're saying is that these things do exist and there is a way to not just game it but be prepared .

Steve Janke - Expert: 27:20

It is Free 99 and free is my second favorite four letter F word. It is a fantastic platform. You can sign up, you can create an account Like you can integrate your LinkedIn profile into it just by copying and pasting the URL, so it makes it really intuitive and honestly easy enough for Marines to use. But the more important thing about AI Sheryl, that really levels the playing field. If we're talking about tailored resumes and we're talking about how do we get from like cause, ultimately, you and I both know that locating, closing with and destroying that job opportunity, it's a game. Yeah Right, like people on the transition side take it really personally because it's their life. People on the HR and the talent side the good ones care about the people applying and they have a community that they really care about.

Steve Janke - Expert: 28:01

And we know who those folks are Like. Two of them are sitting on this call, but there are a bunch of them that don't understand and don't feel it the same way we do, or they're just overrekt I'm not talking WRECK R-E-Q-D, yeah, so they don't have time to put in that personal touch. So one of the things that AI does is it levels the playing field in that job search. The fact that you can make a tailored resume using AI with a matter of pushing a couple of buttons right To then apply to that job. It takes a whole lot out of. I've invested this much in this opportunity and this is the thing like I've fallen in love with right, so now you can swipe right a bunch of times in the parlance of our time. You don't ever have to feel like this is the only super match I have you can just wait for them to come back.

Steve Janke - Expert: 28:58

So it really puts the onus back on the companies to engage in an authentic manner. So it's more about the culture and the competency of the company's talent process than it is about the quality of your resume. That's really how AI levels that playing field, Because if they're gonna use it on their end for the Airties right and their screening processes, why can't you use it in your resume development?

Cheryl Cross: 29:24

I didn't know a lot of what you just shared, and I've heard about it. I'm learning about it as I navigate. I'm an HR consultant. I work with companies every day on these challenges and, Steve, you know this better. You have clients that are corporations, but it's not perfect yet. There's laws, there's steps, there's so many things that are going on. These companies have huge chunks of data and they're parsing through hundreds, if not hundreds of thousands, of resumes.

Cheryl Cross: 29:52

The easiest way you can do this, folks, is to make it as best of a match to the job description as possible. Keep in mind, your resume is going to get you the interview. Your interview is going to get you a job right. So if I had a magic wand and I think, Steve, you'd say the same thing everybody would get a phone call from a human being. You wouldn't just get that disposition email where you're not a match. You'd be moved forward in the process quickly if you could, and then you would have a verbal yes or no. That just doesn't exist in the world of recruiting, with hundreds of thousands of applicants and people, recruiters having so many requisitions. Hey, steve, what is about AI that's so exciting to me and probably to you? It's putting a lot more control in the hands of the applicant. So, steve, how does someone get on board with that? Is it something our applicants can go to?

Steve Janke - Expert: 30:53

You can go to ChatGBT or you can go to Microsoft Bing in their conversation list and you can ask it. When I started using ChatGBT was I said tell me what the skill sets of 0311 are in the United States Marine Corps, having served four years. So it boom, boom, boom, boom, bullet, it pointed out. I said translate those skill sets to the civilian world, spit it right out. And like language was done. And I said now tell me what positions in the civilian world would this candidate like, would this MOS be a solid fit for? And of course it spit out like the usual in law enforcement, security, right, groundskeeping, crayon eating.

Steve Janke - Expert: 31:44

Ultimately, the point wasn't the fact that it spit out like all the things that you're used to seeing. The point is if you copy and pasted your military service into it said, now make this civilian language, it will do that. If I take a resume of somebody that's been in 25 years right and copy and paste that whole thing into ChatGBT and then I ask it to translate to civilian language in a resume format, it will not get anything wrong because all it's doing is taking the language it's given and then marrying it to the civilian equivalent, because what it is is a large language aggregator. So as much as you put in is what you're gonna get out. Now if I say I was a machine gunner in the Marine Corps, write me a resume for VP of sales, right?

Cheryl Cross: 32:37

You're gonna be like I'm really not sure that those things are targeting. Steve, you're always a welcome expert here. I really appreciate all of the information you shared, and why don't you let the folks know how they can get ahold of you?

Steve Janke - Expert: 33:00

Surely they can always find me on LinkedIn. So it's Steven Yankee, J-A-N-K-E at LinkedIn, and then mission-wisconsin. com. So it's mission spelled out Wisconsin, spelled the traditional way since 1848, and then com right, and then semperforwarddotcom, so always forward, and that's how we look at transition. So we look forward to finding you and helping you through it.

Cheryl Cross: 33:25

Yep, Definitely put Steve on your list of folks to connect with. Thanks so much for listening to this part of the show. We are in our expert segment. Moving on, we'll have somebody who is at least one year out and working in the civilian job market, but first I just want to say thanks, Steve. We'll have you back and I'll talk to you soon. Steve Janke - Guest - You're welcome. Thank you, Cheryl. Cheryl Cross - Host - Welcome back to the segment. I'm so excited to have one of our guests, someone I've known for a couple of years. I met him through my former corporate job and have been stalking him for the last two years in preparation for this podcast. I'd like you to meet Corey Spuhler. Corey, welcome to the show. How are you today?

Corey Spuhler: 34:07

I'm doing great Thanks for having me.

Cheryl Cross: 34:09

You bet and I know I said your last name incorrectly. Can you correct us on how you say it?

Corey Spuhler: 34:13

It's pretty close Spooler.

Cheryl Cross: 34:16

There. Thank you so much. One of the challenges that is coming up for people listening in our community is preparation. They have a lot of fear, anticipation of what might happen. I know that you feel that your transition into civilian career was pretty good. You handled it well and I like that. You had no big upsets, but you did want to talk about something that's new to you and very important to you, so why don't you go ahead and talk about that?

Corey Spuhler: 34:48

Yeah.

Corey Spuhler: 34:48

So, like you said, it was I wouldn't say a smooth transition, but there were no major bumps in the road that derailed my motivation or got me down in the dumps.

Corey Spuhler: 35:02

It was just knowing that I kind of needed to be flexible. So a big part of that challenge because my wife and I were at the time dual military and getting out and her staying in was shifting that mindset to supporting her career as a military spouse and trying to keep in mind that flexibility needed throughout the process of finding my way in the job searches and the potential locations that we might end up in. And knowing that there was more to the process than just finding something that I really wanted to do. There was the balance of finding something to do that was rewarding and fit my personality, my background, but also finding something that would be flexible enough to handle the load at home, because we have a seven year old who is switching from one kindergarten in Hawaii to another kindergarten in Virginia, so that was going to be an experience for him in itself. So just being there to foster his resilience and being able to support the change in not just states but climate and scenery with new friends, so that was probably the biggest challenge for me.

Cheryl Cross: 36:34

I like that you say foster his resilience. That's exactly what the show is about fostering people's resilience and I've watched you over the last two years as you've navigated probably about a year, year and a half of career. So talk to me about what your experience has been. And again, we're here to support those who are thinking about it or going through it, or maybe those who didn't do it well or they want to redo it. So I see you as a shining example of someone who's pretty happy. Why don't you tell us about it?

Corey Spuhler: 37:11

Yeah, I think my job in the military really, for me, fostered a mindset of flexibility and being able to adapt to different situations. But at the same time we did a lot of analysis, whether it was going out to sea or working with another foreign military or just doing major events here and there. There's always a post analysis portion of what went right, what went wrong, what can we do better next time. That was the part that I always enjoyed in getting out of the military. One of the things that I was looking for in a job was that analysis piece, obviously something that fit what I did my time in the military, but also something that I enjoyed diving deeper into and kind of finding issues and working on problem sets to make whatever community that was surrounding that issue better. At the end of the day. Obviously it was Department of Defense focused, but that was kind of the stepping stone for me was to stay within that realm of problem solving and analysis.

Cheryl Cross: 38:33

I like how you refer to the work that you did and I call that hot wash the ability to do a good hot wash debrief and look and see so you don't repeat mistakes, but the ability to do that in your job as a corporate recruiter. I can tell you that, depending on the company you're looking at, it's very important and, however, you can put that in a resume or have it in a conversation that your ability to look back without emotion and really carve through some of the issues is so helpful for you, not only as a professional, but for the team. I like that you brought that up. Flexibility you talk about these big words. I want you to break down how flexibility has served you in your career changes. You haven't just had one position since you left. Talk to us about that.

Corey Spuhler: 39:26

Getting out, the base of my flexibility in terms of being able to wait for the right position and to really put a lot of thought into what position I was looking for. Part of it was knowing that there was a separation payment as I left active duty because I didn't want to get out. But when you don't continue on certain career paths in certain job communities, you really don't have a choice. At a certain point I knew I had that cushion there to fall back on if I needed it. But also when we decided we were going to change localities, it in the back of my mind became a potential down payment for a house. That was one of the nice things about getting out and I know everyone doesn't have that cushion to fall back on. And it can be a little bit more stressful for people and for folks, for families, to go from maybe one income through the military and have to find that income replacement when you're getting out of the military. The stress level was fairly low. I was confident that I would find something relatively quick when I did stop getting the paycheck from the military. That was what helped my flexibility mindset to start, but also, I think, with my decision for the career path, at least short term.

Corey Spuhler: 41:05

I originally thought about a government job and, talking to folks that either worked government jobs or were currently working government jobs, you get a lot of feedback that that hiring process is not quick. You have to be ready to wait three to six months potentially to get the phone call that you're hired and when you're going to start, and all of that. Having that in mind, I shifted focus to maybe a contractor role within the Department of Defense. I started looking into different job boards and job searches with my background in mind, but also what contract companies were hiring and what positions they were offering and that entry level. But what level of experience was needed. I didn't quite see myself at a senior level necessarily, but there were some job openings that still fit within what I did and what I could do at a higher level. I think it was just getting comfortable with that job search that helped maintain the flexibility that I needed.

Cheryl Cross: 42:26

So many people are out there wondering where they want to go. They've been PCS to so many locations. They may have a home of record they don't want to return to. But you had one place which happens to be a pretty big place for the Department of Defense roles. You were very lucky. What if, let's say, just magic wand, what if your spouse was in some remote area? What would your options have been? What would you have done? And I'm pretty sure you would have been as easygoing as you are, because that's just your character. But how might you have changed your strategy?

Corey Spuhler: 43:03

Yeah, I think I may have looked into something that may have fit my personality more so, something along the lines of coaching or working with kids, not necessarily a teacher, because I don't really feel like I have that background, even though I did some instructor duty in the military. I just don't think a teacher position would have been for me. But it was knowing that maybe my clearance wouldn't factor into the job search and maybe my military time wouldn't factor into the job search. But there were things I did in college through sports and through campus life that I knew that I could fall back on to talk to with a potential employer, depending on what the job might have been Like you alluded to. Luckily I didn't have to go down that route because that probably would have added some stress to the job search. But yeah, we kind of lucked out with the location and knowing that it's not just DC, it's the surrounding area in Northern Virginia and Southern Maryland, there's a lot of opportunities and a lot of companies to look into.

Cheryl Cross: 44:23

Well, I do hope you continue thinking that you're a great coach and you could do that. I know your son is growing. That was one of the greatest parts of me being a parent was getting involved in kids sports. Timing is of the essence. I remember we were having very broad conversations, your situation was changing pretty fluidly and pretty quickly and wanted to speak to you because I liked the style that you did. You were unemotional, you were very fact-based, you got me the information as soon as I needed it, which is, I think, when you got it, and I know that you were talking to other people at the same time. So how do you hit that from an outsider, looking in, what strategies would you share? As a trainer, as someone who wants to give back, what would you suggest they do?

Corey Spuhler: 45:12

Well, I think being open and honest goes a long way. If you are talking to different companies or looking at multiple positions, just be honest with that. Also, like you said, the responsiveness goes a long way too, because that kind of shows a bit of your reliability right from the start, without even being hired or interviewed, that someone on the other end can count on you to get information to them or answer questions that they might have, and at the end of the day, it's going to benefit you and the potential employer, I think. So, I think the honesty, the responsiveness I've really relayed that to a few of my friends that are either in the transition process or looking in that direction in the next couple of years or so. And again, it helps to be flexible If an interview has to change, a time has to change, or I think in our case, the stated position changed, but it was still something that fit what I brought to the table and it wasn't like, oh well, I don't want to do this position now because this isn't what we originally talked about.

Corey Spuhler: 46:29

So, having that open-mindedness to know that, well, your position may be different, but the team that you're going to be working with is still focused on a common goal, and the project involved is still something that you want to be a part of.

Cheryl Cross: 46:47

I like that. You talked about trust and honesty and transparency. I recommend also that if you have a chance to develop a relationship with a hiring team or a recruiter or anyone within a corporate or company structure, that you maintain that like a friend. A lot of people want to come in and leverage and there's a chance that you can leverage other offers if you're getting an offer for a job you want. But leveraging information is not something I recommend because it becomes threatening and kind of wasteful. And so let me give you an example. If somebody not Corey, but if somebody came to me as a professional recruiter and said you know, I'm talking to other people and I have another interview next week and I haven't heard from you in five days and I'm getting you know, I'm going to have to give them an answer. It's like that's threatening and I can't. Your emergency is not my problem. My company is going to work on their own speed. I'll certainly get back to you as soon as possible, but there might be other people in the queue. So how I would handle that differently is how Corey handled it with us and that was hey, heads up. I just want to let you know we have a location change. I like your company. I really like what you're doing and the teams that I spoke to.

Cheryl Cross: 48:11

Is there a chance that I could be connected to someone else and that was so thoughtful and honest? Like you're knocking on a neighbor's door and asking for a cup of sugar, it's hey, do you mind? I'm baking a cake and I ran out of sugar. Do you mind helping me out? Rather than, the house is on fire. I got to get this cake done and if you don't give me a cup of sugar, it's like everything's over. It's a different approach and I think nobody comes in thinking they're going to destroy relationships. But anxiety certainly can. It definitely can shows a bit of desperation. All the recruiters out there know you want jobs. For sure. They're doing their best to try and put the right person in the right job and hopefully that's you. This is a question that comes up a lot for people who've been out in the working force as a civilian and I like to ask it of everybody is what do you wish you knew then that you know now?

Corey Spuhler: 49:13

I had to think about that one.

Cheryl Cross: 49:14

Would it be time? Would it be the amount of people you had to talk to? Would it be having 10 versions of resumes? Would it be?

Corey Spuhler: 49:24

I think the resume point that you brought up is very relevant. The transition process getting out of the military has gotten better. I'll say that when I left the military the first time in 2003, it was a one-day class and not very helpful. The person giving the class wasn't too enthusiastic. Granted, it was almost 20 years prior to me getting out the second time, but even going through it in 2021 and a lot of it being virtual, it was still more worthwhile just because it was a week long and there was a lot more information to put out.

Corey Spuhler: 50:10

I think the internet and social media has a lot more to do with your transition process and some of the tools you have to use getting out now than it did back then. Obviously. But the resume piece having that shell resume and being able to tailor it to different jobs and just knowing that some companies don't give it as much of a thorough look as others, knowing that there are certain keywords tied to certain positions that you could benefit from having your resume in one way or another that definitely helps. I never felt the need to pay someone to do a resume for me, but I definitely got some help with it along the way, especially the federal resume I built. I had a lot of help from a friend who was in a federal job at the time. That really helped me beef up that federal resume. But even that is one of the resumes that you need to tailor to every position you're going to apply for. So knowing that that was helpful. Maybe knowing a little bit more about that would have been helpful.

Corey Spuhler: 51:21

But the networking piece is huge too. I had a LinkedIn account while I was in the military but I don't think I ever really gave it much attention or bothered with it. And it has come in handy way more than I thought it would have in the two years that I've been out, even the six months leading up to my transition and separation. I think part of our military transition program was to build a LinkedIn account. So it was nice that I already had mine built. I just had to kind of tweak a few things. But that has been big for networking.

Cheryl Cross: 52:01

Yeah, and for those listening in our community, I just want to remind you if you're working any type of cyber or intel, nobody expects you to have a huge social media presence. In fact, there's even some companies that really don't want you to put yourself out there. Based on your clearance level, based on the work you're doing, so fully understandable that you might not have a LinkedIn profile that is to the tee at every given time. So you had that opportunity to build your LinkedIn profile. You reached out to people. You think that having that shell resume is that template that you build on and you look at the job that you're interested in and you build something against that. Is that what you did?

Corey Spuhler: 52:43

That is what I did, and I even went a few steps further, going back into my military experience and tailoring some of that to match some of the jobs that I was applying for. Yeah, it's just constantly digging back into your experiences and thinking A lot of it was stuff that I had forgotten I did until I read through a job position description and I was like, oh, I've done that before. Maybe I should change the wording for this time period on my resume to maybe more accurately reflect what's listed in that job position. And it was never a point where I was making things up, it was just going back and re-wording certain line items that were attached to either the jobs that I did in the military or the time periods that I was in.

Cheryl Cross: 53:36

I think if there was a mantra for people leaving the military, it would be. I can do that because you've done so much.

Cheryl Cross: 53:43

You get immediate on the job training. You're put in a position. Sometimes you don't get to choose, but you've got to do it anyway because you've promised to serve and support, and I love that about folks who are coming out of the military and working. We're here to help them transition. And, cori, I so appreciate your time, energy and enthusiasm. Do you have any last alibis before we say goodbye that you'd like to share?

Corey Spuhler: 54:09

You know, I think with the interviewing process we talk about a lot of going to interviews for the experience of talking on interviews, and that helps a lot, but also keeping in mind that it may not just be one person.

Corey Spuhler: 54:25

I had an interview where it was with five different people broken up into five half-hour time slots.

Corey Spuhler: 54:32

I was currently doing a little staycation with my wife and my son and I decided to book that interview for a day that we were at the resort. I think I kicked myself thinking I didn't realize it was going to be that long because the final person on the panel was late, so it went even longer than I thought it was going to be. That alone kind of soured me towards the company going forward. But it's one of those things that sticks with me. It's like, yeah, that interview might not be with one or two people, it might be a whole team of people and then a lot of times the recruiter or the hiring manager gives you a heads up of who you're going to be talking to. It never hurts to see if you can look back and find some things about those folks that you might already have in common you can speak to during the interview, because it just gives you a more personal level as you're discussing the position, but also your background too.

Cheryl Cross: 55:36

I agree, I think your recruiter, if you're working through a recruiter, or your referral, if you're working through a referral, and you don't need to know their blood type, social security number, their mother's maiden name, you need to know what they like and if you can find that out in the first few minutes, to see where their connection is. Corey, you're such a pleasure. I hope to have you back continuously on the podcast and if folks wanted to get in touch with you, would you recommend LinkedIn? And for those listening, maybe while they're doing other things and not watching video, can you spell your last name?

Corey Spuhler: 56:10

Yeah, LinkedIn is great. I'm on LinkedIn. My last name is S as in Sam, P as in Paul, U-H-L-E-R.

Cheryl Cross: 56:22

Wonderful. Thanks so much, Corey. You have a great day and give your son a big hug from me. We'll see you soon.

Corey Spuhler: 56:28

We'll do it. Thanks, Bill.

Cheryl Cross: 56:32

Welcome back. I'm Cheryl Cross, your host, and this is the Military to Civilian Career Transition Power Hour. At the end of our hour, we have someone who's been out of the military for at least five years. Our guest today is Stephen Brown. He is the president of the nonprofit Camp Brown Bear, usa. He's located in Kentucky, but I believe he has some time in Alaska. Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and what led you to create a nonprofit? Hi, stephen.

Steve Brown- Camp Brown Bear USA: 57:00

Hello, hey, thanks for having me A little bit about myself. I did a little over 20 years in the military, started out in the Navy and, you know, did the boot camp thing. My goal was to become a SEAL, went to Buds, made it through. My first command was SEAL delivery vehicle team one out in Hawaii, and so I spent a little time there. From there I transitioned to SEAL team six. I was there from 2001 until 2009. So I spent a lot of time overseas. I did my first deployment at that command right after 9-11 to Afghanistan, and then from there I went to our training command up in Alaska where we teach Cold-Blood and Maritime operations, and was there for a few years and then went to SEAL team four while I was preparing to retire and retired in 2014.

Steve Brown- Camp Brown Bear USA: 57:55

I wasn't too sure what I was going to do at first when I was getting ready to retire, but this is kind of weird. I woke up from a dream and I was actually teaching a bow drill. It's a friction fire, one of the things that we teach up in Alaska to our students, to kids. My son age at the time, so he was in middle school. I think I want to open up a school for fatherless boys, and so that's what this whole endeavor started as, and it eventually turned into a veteran camp, for the most part Retreats for male veterans, female veterans and now couples. And I'd still like to do follow this boys camp, but for some reason we have goats here to maintain some of our drainages. Our topography here is really hilly, and so instead of rolling my tractor, like I almost did a couple times, I put in goats, and the goats are closer our cabins and for some reason the county health department says you can't have livestock within 500 feet of where children sleep. So that's what's holding us up, yeah.

Cheryl Cross: 59:09

It's just kind of a bummer. That's a new one.

Steve Brown- Camp Brown Bear USA: 59:11

Yeah, that was a new one to me too. But I asked them about veterans. They said, yeah, veterans can sleep within 500 feet. I'm like, can they sleep in the goat houses with the goats? They said yes, they can. I said, okay, well, this is easy. We'll just continue down the path with having veteran retreats, and so our first veteran retreat was in 2015 and it did not look anything like we're doing today.

Steve Brown- Camp Brown Bear USA: 59:37

Back then it was some veterans that found out about what I was doing while I was at a wounded warrior project event. They came out here to just kind of help me so we could take the camp back from the land. It had not been occupied for a couple of years and the people that I purchased it from hadn't had a camp of any sorts out here in like four years. So we did a lot of cutting and burning. That was pretty much it the whole first weekend, and then now it's completely different, but it's a lot better now.

Steve Brown- Camp Brown Bear USA: 1:00:10

So when I went to TAP class, their big thing at TAP was creating a resume and taking what you did in the military and trying to translate it into what you could do as a civilian. I mean, there was a few things that crossed over as being a seal into the civilian life. But I already knew that what I was going to do was going to be completely different. I was going to take some skill sets that I knew and try to apply them in another way. And then so for me it's kind of kind of felt like it was more of a waste of time than anything, because I knew what I was going to do. I knew I didn't need a resume for it.

Steve Brown- Camp Brown Bear USA: 1:00:47

Every career, every job, I had priority going into military. I was hired, word of mouth, Someone would recommend me, and so I've never even really built out any job applications, except for like one at a beach that I've life guarded at. So it was just not, I don't know. I just didn't feel like it was doing me much good being in that course. Now, for other people I'm sure it does. But then again, you know you're trying to translate a military occupation into a civilian occupation. You know I feel bad for, like infantry guys and dudes that drive tanks and dudes that are artillery, I mean it's like, unless you're in a leadership position and you have some management skills, I mean I guess you could fall back on that a little bit, but it's. There's not a whole lot of crossover into the civilian sector with those skill sets.

Steve Brown- Camp Brown Bear USA: 1:01:44

But, so to me, like nowadays I hear of like the honor foundation, which Naval Special Warfare uses a lot, a friend of mine just retired and they actually let him do a six month internship while he was still on active duty status with a company that he then retired from the military and just started working for them. So there was like zero transition. He was already there. So they're doing a lot better job from the sounds of things. But before it was kind of like here's your DDT 14, see you, and I know a lot of people have a lot of problems with that and I had a feeling that I wasn't going to work well with others anyways after I got out.

Steve Brown- Camp Brown Bear USA: 1:02:31

So for me to even try to get it. It's just I'm used to working with a certain caliber of person, people that you don't really have to manage, that are really fired up to just go do stuff and get it done on their own, people that aren't worried about oh, I've already hit eight hours today. It's like the guys I know and how I work is pretty much work until it's done or you're working until they're exhausted and go get some sleep and get back at it, and the job always comes first and over, like everything. The mission, the mission, yeah, exactly yeah. So I had a feeling and I've heard from my friends that had retired or gotten out before me they would go and work for civilian companies and just you know, companies that they thought would be great to go work for and, you know, maybe had something to relate with something that they're doing while they're in the teams, whether it was a, you know, a firearm company or an ammo company or an optic company or something like that. But they would get so frustrated with their coworkers because they're just be like they're so lazy. You take that on the flip side. If the management sees that you're working a lot harder than them, then you're probably going to move up a little bit faster. So I don't know, but I just had this feeling I better just find something where I can be my own boss and drive my own timeline and my own schedule, and it really that's what I did. So I found this old campground that was built in the 1970s and it was a church camp for 1970 something until 2000. And then the people I purchased it from bought it from the church in 2000 and then ran camps until 2010 and then lived here for two more years and then moved away.

Steve Brown- Camp Brown Bear USA: 1:04:22

So when I first came out here and I saw the place, it was in the winter time. It was one of those winter days where there was no wind. It's super quiet. I could hear the snow crunching under your feet and all I saw is deer tracks all over the place and turkey tracks, and I was just like it is so quiet and peaceful here, and then I'm like we're only six miles from the Capitol building, so we're walking up the hill and I'm starting to see structures, and so I would see the first couple cabins and See the next couple cabins and then the last couple cabins and the lodge and log home and that kind of stuff, and I was just like, yeah, this is perfect.

Steve Brown- Camp Brown Bear USA: 1:05:00

There's just a sense of peace about this property and I don't know if it was because of having the church pastor living here, you know for 30 years, and all the church camps and all the blessings and all everything. You know the amount of times that this land was preyed upon by you know the church. I don't know if that was part of it or what, but it really has a soothing Feeling. When you get up here, you just want to like just relax and chill and why is soothing so important to you?

Cheryl Cross: 1:05:32

Who, who's coming to the camp? Talk a little bit more about that.

Steve Brown- Camp Brown Bear USA: 1:05:37

Yeah. So we are open to any veteran, male, female. We also do couples, so the couples kind of look well. We have had couples where both are veterans, but typically it's a veteran and we we say the other person's their support person. It doesn't necessarily have to be a spouse, me, a boyfriend, girlfriend. It could be a parent taking care of a younger veteran, it could be, you know, a brother taking care of his veteran brother. You know, it could be whatever it is. We open it up to basically any veteran, any era veteran. We don't have a Restriction as far as you have to be post 9-11. We have had Vietnam veterans come out here and it's always pretty interesting getting their take on things.

Steve Brown- Camp Brown Bear USA: 1:06:19

What we do is we don't. We're not here to treat people, we're here to introduce them to other things, to kind of either give them a hobby or just help them turn their brain off a little bit and Try to. I mean, we don't encourage them to stop taking their medication from the VA, but like when I first got out and started going to the VA, it seemed like every appointment I had I was being, I was being written another prescription and before I knew it I had a lot of prescriptions and I Just felt like it was doing something to me that wasn't right. I just wasn't feeling myself anymore and so I Went to a civilian doctor that was recommended to me by one of my friends. He was a deputy sheriff at the time and you know we went through a bunch of stuff, did some blood work. He asked me to bring all my prescriptions in, so I did the next time and he went through them and he was like all these are really good prescriptions, but I would never take these all together. Because he's like you're mixing uppers and downers, because I got PTSD, I've got TBI, so you got anxiety, you got depression, so they're like trying to bring it down from one and up from the other. He's like alright, so this is what we're gonna do, we're gonna wean you off of this. And then so he put me on one medication and then just started weaning me off of all the other ones. And you know, since then it's been like Life's been pretty good, like as far as just Moods, and it was weird like this.

Steve Brown- Camp Brown Bear USA: 1:07:43

One time I I got a new medication from them and then all of a sudden my heart rate was down in the 30s and Typically I'm like mid to upper 40s and it was just really, really low and my doc told me you know, the same doctor told me that had I kept taking that up, it probably killed me. So I was, I just felt that I felt really off from it. So I just stopped taking it and but yeah, so we try to encourage people to get out here, find things that they can, you know. So we introduced them to holistic modalities like Trauma-based yoga, meditation, art therapy, music therapy, sound therapy, reiki, craneal sacral massage. We do equine therapy. We get them out on the water kayaking. We spend a lot of every night around the fire Just talking. We do allow them to have some adult beverages. We don't allow anybody to get crazy. Not a control, but we try to treat everybody as adults. You know, somebody does get out of control. Then they'll leave, I mean after, probably the next morning, but let them sleep off. Whatever they got going on and and then. But we try to keep it Really just low-key and just a good atmosphere.

Steve Brown- Camp Brown Bear USA: 1:08:57

You know we'll have service members from every branch, every different type of job.

Steve Brown- Camp Brown Bear USA: 1:09:02

Had some older seal team guys come in, which has been cool. One of them was Pulling astronauts out of like the Apollo's space capsules and stuff when they would land back in, you know, the Pacific or the Atlantic Ocean. Yeah, so that was cool. And then Fed, just yeah, like guys from all the way back to Vietnam, all the way, you know, to younger guys like that have just gotten out recently and sometimes we've had active duty people come in, which is kind of neat. We just had a unit from the Air Force, from their special tactics squadron, one of their STS guys or groups. They just came out here to see if they could bring a group of them out here to do a retreat and I was like, absolutely, I think that'd be totally cool, you know. So like a unit level retreat. But they came out here, did like a work project and did a bunch of training on their own where this unit wants to like go through what we actually put the veterans and everybody else through.

Cheryl Cross: 1:09:57

Steve, did you ever think when you were going through your taps class that you'd be sitting in Kentucky on X amount of acres of land with cabins and and turkeys and snow falling? Take that scenario and move me forward to now. Are you, wow, are you? Oh my goodness, this was hard. Oh my goodness, this was easy. This is beyond my expectations. What would you do differently?

Steve Brown- Camp Brown Bear USA: 1:10:22

So it's exceeding my expectations. Now it seems like in the last Form we've done it's our last renovation on up on our final building last fall and and it looks absolutely beautiful. We milled a whole bunch of wood from the property a bunch of red oak, white oak, black walnut and cedar and, you know, incorporated that into the remodeling of it and Jim beam came in with like 16 other companies and Just did a knockout job. It is things beautiful. I mean it took us because I was always embarrassed to bring people up here to do a presentation, because our old budget was just Sealing, sagging and you could kind of see light coming through the walls and it's just. The kitchen was from the 1970s and it's just and it didn't picked us properly. And so now, like we have this beautiful space that does match what we're doing here. So when we do have organizations, or like we had some people from the Kentucky Department of Veterans Affairs up here last week, so they come in and everybody now is just like, wow, you know, wow, this is beautiful, I would never imagine this is up here, and that's so. That's how it starts.

Steve Brown- Camp Brown Bear USA: 1:11:36

And then I go into our presentation of you know kind of how I Started this thing, came across the camp and Every you know been renovating this thing for like eight years to get it to where it is right now and I would say it's been that entire time. I say my pace has been a crawl, because he do the crawl, you know, walk, run. So I've been crawling this whole time and then we we get the lodge finished and you know, we're just starting to get some more word out there and I meet this kid. He's like he was traveling around the US trying to raise money. He's a infantry guy trying to raise money for veteran nonprofits and we run into each other because he's working on one of my board members houses, who's a Marine that got ID'd and Iraq lost both of his legs and his vision and and so he was like, hey, he's like Steve, come in here, I want you to meet Alexander. So we just started talking and I left and then he looked me up online and he's like, hey, we need to talk. And I'm like, what's up, dude? I'm like that's into you or something. But Because we're always, you know, once you find out he's in the army, I got to make an army comment, you know, I'm always. I'm always, you know, bringing crayons to Matt.

Steve Brown- Camp Brown Bear USA: 1:12:55

But because he was a Marine and so he's like hey, I was traveling all over the country, my, my vehicle happened to break down in Georgetown. I have a cousin that lives there, so I'm living with them and and and I was raising money for nonprofits, for veterans specifically, and he's like, he's like, I really like what you're doing and would it be possible to come out and see the place. So he came out the next day and he's like he's like, dude, you're on a gold mine here and I'm like well, it didn't happen overnight, so I'll tell you that right now it's been. It's been a long, slow process. I kind of just as I was Renovating buildings and figuring out what we're gonna do.

Steve Brown- Camp Brown Bear USA: 1:13:35

I just did everything real slow and methodical and you know, if I hit that roadblock it's like okay, we can go to the right or left and just kind of adjust our course a little bit. So nothing too drastic. I didn't want to like make Too many changes all at once and then you don't know what change really worked and what didn't work. So then you still might have to change something again down the road. But so to me it was kind of an easy thing to do because I was just motivated, self-motivated, to get it going. The first veteran that I had that was a multi suicide attempt veteran. Come here and change his life, get his master's degree stuck and became an art teacher Like that's the money right there.

Cheryl Cross: 1:14:18

Well, congratulations, camp brown bear, usa. Oh, or what's the web org? You're a nonprofit. I Impressed that you came from. You know altered neurology from your medical conditions Not just condition, but conditions coming out of the service and it seems like you've really been able to follow your passion. I ask every guest this, whether they're in the soup or they're one year out or they're more than five years, like yourself, if you knew then what you knew now, what would that be? How might you share that for the folks listening so?

Steve Brown- Camp Brown Bear USA: 1:15:02

I think the one thing I Wish I knew I was gonna go through is, just as my body was just dealing with a lot of the trauma that I'd been through, I had known I was going to like wake up three times at night and have to change bed sheets because I'm soaking them through a sweat. Just having a little heads up on that from all that, you know, just all the nightmares and everything from Events overseas or you know similar to things that happened overseas, and just that piece of it. I mean I was a good two or three wolves during this time, and so this kind of that leads me to also why I wouldn't be able to work well with others. I mean, there's days I couldn't get out of bed. So you know to try to have a job on the civilian side and then try to explain to them what's going on. They may understand, but they may not, and they may understand once or twice, but you know when it turns into like a recurring thing and it's like Kind of debilitating you.

Steve Brown- Camp Brown Bear USA: 1:16:03

So for me to be able to, you know, work until Midnight or one in the morning, or two in the morning or whatever it was, and I got tired and then just go to bed and then wake back up and walk back out on the camp here on the farm and start working again, like that was really the only way I think I Could have done it, because I just, you know, to work in normal Nine to five or something, where it's whatever it is, where you're supposed to Be at the office at a certain time and do whatever job it is that you're supposed to do, and then leave at a certain time, I just don't think it would have fit with me at all. And so I think, because of that dream and you, you know, put me on the walkie-talkie to be able to be successful, because I could work this whole project how I needed to work it.

Cheryl Cross: 1:16:53

Set your own schedule, go by your passions. Your message is incredibly powerful. I know that I know everyone listening can resonate, knows somebody has a story of somebody who's suffered from traumatic brain injury or PTSD or is working through it, and we all have a list of people who have died. Suicide is taking so many soldiers and so many people veterans. What's your closing alibi? How might someone get a hold of you? How might they get involved with the camp? How could they learn more outside of the website? What recommendations do you have?

Steve Brown- Camp Brown Bear USA: 1:17:33

Sure. So besides the website, we have a Facebook page. Both of those are probably the easiest way to get a hold of me. We have other social media that somehow I've set up. I like made our website and don't ask me how I did that, but that's a good thing. They got website building tools out there that make things pretty easy, but between those two things, that would be the best way to get a hold of me or get a hold of someone here at Camp Brown Bear. Yeah, yeah, black Bones. And again, you know, being in Kentucky and being as small as what we are and growing by word of mouth really is how we've grown.

Steve Brown- Camp Brown Bear USA: 1:18:10

Now, when we announce that we're doing a retreat whether it's a male, female or couple's retreat I mean that thing's full. Like now when we did our first couple's retreat, when we announced that I like opened up applications on a Friday evening at like 5 pm and then Saturday, like later in the evening, I decided to just check my email and I was like holy cow, I better take that down, because I only needed five couples and we had 20. And we're getting people applying from all over the country. I mean it's not just this area of the United States. I mean you're talking all the way west coast, all the way up to Maine. And the thing that kind of bothers me is why are we the only organization like this out there that's doing what we're doing? And so to the point where we're now starting to look for hopefully moving from site out west somewhere between, like Arizona and Montana, just to kind of be able to start covering that region a little bit better. And again we'll go nice and slow and steady, but we get. I mean, first things first is just to make sure this place is solid and make sure we can sustain what we're doing here, and then, you know, I think that something will come across.

Steve Brown- Camp Brown Bear USA: 1:19:33

I mean, I've met a really powerful female back then out in Arizona. She was in Vietnam, she was a nurse and got shot down in a helicopter. Long story short so, king Hussein from Jordan. When he was in the United States she was one of his primary cares at Walter Reed. She went back to Jordan with him and took, like started to run the entire healthcare system of the country, and then she runs four hospitals in Arizona now. So I'm like kind of leaning towards Arizona just because now that I've met this wonderful woman like I'm sure she has a ton of assets and so she's in Jordan now. We've had one meeting, we're going to have another one when she gets back in October, and I'm going to look forward to pitching the idea of opening up another place out in her backyard. I think she would love it.

Cheryl Cross: 1:20:28

And I think there might be a few people listening that would have a few ideas too. You're a great example of someone who's dealing with adversity, who's stuck with a passion, has used your training, your incredible perseverance and you've moved through. I know it's a daily struggle and I don't want to paint this as being so positive that it's toxic. I know that there's things you probably still deal with, but I want to thank you. Thank you so much for your support and for this time with us today. I'd love to have you back as this podcast grows and as our community of folks listening grows. I think the information you shared today is quite, quite valuable. Anything you'd like to leave us with before we head off and end the show.

Steve Brown- Camp Brown Bear USA: 1:21:14

Well, I would really enjoy coming back as well. It's really important what you're doing trying to get some information to veterans or to military members that are going to be transitioning to veterans, and there's a lot of uncertainty, so this will be a goal for them. And, yeah, just keep doing what you're doing. Just keep doing this good work. Somebody really needs to do it, and I'm glad that the special operations community seems to have started to really take care of their guys that are getting out, guys and girls getting out, but as far as the larger military, I can't really speak for them. I'm sure they're going to tap class still and then leave.

Cheryl Cross: 1:22:03

There's a lot of us out there, a lot of good civilians, and it's just a lot of us out there holding hands and screaming from the rooftops. It can never be too prepared and as a seal, you know that. All right, well, thank you so much. We're going to end the show, but we'll definitely have you back. Campbrownbearusaorg Steven Brown, your pleasure to have. Thanks so much.

Steve Brown- Camp Brown Bear USA: 1:22:24

Thank you.

Cheryl Cross: 1:22:26

And that's a wrap. Thanks for being with us for our very first episode of the Military to Civilian Career Transition Power Hour. I'm your host and producer, Cheryl Cross. All thanks to our guest today, Angie Smith, our expert, Steve Yankee, Corey Spooler and Campbrownbearusaorg leader, Steve Brown. We'll see you on the next one. Oh and, if you're watching on YouTube, hit the like and subscribe button, and if you're listening on any of the podcast platforms, make sure you subscribe. We've got more shows on the way. Before I leave, I'd like to remind you you are strong, you are brave, you are skilled and you are trained, and that is exactly what the civilian workforce needs. We'll see you next time.

Angie Smith: 1:23:17

Video production for this episode is done with care by oceantreecreative dot com.